T: For the purposes of our research we will need a transcript of this interview to use later on, so are you comfortable with us recording this conversation?
MM: sure
T: In addition to presenting to our class we are creating a website to publish our findings, when we present your quotations do you give us approval to use your name?
M: Sure
T: We would like to publish interviews with photos, are you okay with having your photo published on our website?
M: Sure
T: I'll get your email and you can send me a photo.
T: Would you be able to say your name, age (if you don't want to say age just like spectrum of age) and occupation and hometown for me?
MM: My name in Monica Morales and I go by Noor, that’s my Muslim name, which means “light from God.” I'm a Houstonian born and raised here and my family are from Mexico. I'm in my mid-30s. I'm an insurance agent and a caregiver for my son.
T: Okay, could you talk a little bit about your relationship to Islam, and just how you interpret it today?
MM: I came to find Islam in 1999. I had always been a really open minded person, and I was really young back then, so I was raised as a Catholic but there were a lot of things I would not agree with and I was kind of confused so I was in search for something to fulfill my soul and my understanding of my relationship with the higher power, with the creator. So, I used to study different types of religions and I used to be very mystical, very spiritual and I found Islam at an insurance company where I was working. A lady who came into my office, was wearing the hijab which is a scarf. She was from Guatemala, so when she started talking to me in Spanish and I was like wow how did you learn Spanish, so she's like “I'm from Guatemala” and I'm like oh wow, like, at the same time she was like glowing so I was really attracted to the appearance so I asked her questions and she told me “I'm a Muslim, my religion is Islam,” and she started talking to me about prophets that I had already known about growing up. So I was really curious, so we started a, like, a friendship at that time, she gave me her number and a few days later I met another man who ended up being my teacher in insurance policy, and he asked if I had heard of Islam and have I ever come across a Quran, and I told him no so he was the first person to bring me a Quran. And back then there was tapes, so he bought me a tape. It was a message called “Sincere Advice,” and some of the subtitles of that same video is the “Purpose of Life.” So I studied, I was going to the lady her name is Lilliana so I would go to her house and we would talk about religion, talk about prophets, and I would stay there like 4 to 5 hours at a time. So, she was like “oh you know they have classes in the musjed, would you like to go?” And, you know, I was intrigued so I was like “okay, let’s go,” so I would go to the mosque like twice a week. I studied Islam for a year and half before I took you know, before I said this is what is for me. One of the things, one of the reasons why I took so long was because of the scarves, there's certain people that’s like once you take your shahada like that’s it, you know, you cover because this is part of our religion and I wasn't ready for that, that transformation appearance wise. But I was so, like, agreeing with everything, with the teachings of Islam and how we view God as one, and the angels, the hereafter, the day of judgement, like everything just made so much sense but I personally wasn't ready for this [points to hijab]. So until like a year and a half later, I met a lady from Palestine and she was like you know what, this [hijab] comes in time, no one can force you to put on anything, if you're not ready for it, then that's not what God is going to judge you based on. He judges based on, he knows the heart, the intentions of us, this will come on your own. Which it did.
T: If you could say maybe, um, your sect of Islam?
MM: I'm Sunni, like the teachings of the prophet Mohammad, peace be upon him.
T: Okay and, I guess, you talked about how you decided to cover, but I guess like how do you interpret the Quran and how closely do you follow it?
MM: Um, I interpret the Quran as the way of life, at least how I should, like a manual, like we all- everything, television, radio, we have these things that need manuals so as humans we have our manual, for me the Quran is like my manual, um, there's a lot of things that as a human, even with certain emotions women can get, there's times that I go into the Quran and it makes me view certain things in a different way versus before when I was non-Muslim I didn't have any regulation, structure or regulation, because I grew up in a really tough time, you know the early, late 80s early 90s here in Houston it was nothing but gangs and all this and I was in that environment when I was a kid so I never really had any structure, any regulation, or anyone telling me what to do. So I kind of lived my life in a rebel kind of way, so finding Islam for me it gave me structure, it gave me like principles, how to live and act in certain ways.
T: How does your specific Hispanic culture impact your religious practices and I guess how you understand Islam day to day?
MM: We don't mix culture and religion, but I do find a lot of words in Arabic, we have same certain words in Spanish, and I guess that's because Islam...Muslims ruled Spain for 800 and something years back then so we have a lot of Spanish words and Arabic words in the Spanish language. Even me, a lot of times people think I'm Arab. I've been to Syria before the war, and I was in Kuwait and a lot of people were like “oh you're Arab.” But no, I'm really a proud Mexican-American Muslim. I wear my scarf for my identity. For me, it also helps me, as a person, to kind of keep me in a check in this crazy world. We're not, we're still, at the end of the day we're humans we're not perfect, you know there's always the devil that tries to make us astray, but this is a reminder for myself that you know, your Muslim, so you know you got to be right. Just a reminder, like my shield even against myself if that makes any sense.
T: The next question is what are your biggest influencers of your decision to cover. So just building upon what you already said about taking your time, I guess besides that.
MM: I think no one really influenced me, it was just something that for me that I chose a different lifestyle because our religion is not just like we're going to go to church on a Sunday, it's how you live your life and practice life, how you eat, how you shower, how you do all these things so for me it was just something, a personal choice between me and God that it helps me to be more humble, so it was just kind of like, just my choice. Protection against, for myself. It's a different thing because before men could be like oh, you know, checking you out and you know, and they may not even be listening to you because they're too busy looking at your physical, but me wearing my scarf is like a protection and it gives me a sense of being respected more and thank God I've never had any kind of experience where someone comes to disrespect me because of my appearance as a Muslim like my dressing. Did I answer the question?
T: Yeah, the only other thought I want to add, is are there any other women in your family who are Muslim or do cover?
MM: No, no just me.
T: Was that difficult interacting with family members who don't understand?
MM: I've been Muslim 16 years now so, me kind of like how I am, of course my family knows me, they know I'm a kind of person I'm going to do, everyone respects me as a person so they don't really cross lines with me. When I first became Muslim in 2001, my mom was upset with me at first. She was devastated. She was going up and down the house crying like “oh my God, what's wrong with you? You're not Indian, you’re not Arab, you're Mexican!” She didn't understand this whole thing. I think after time she started to understand, I told her our beliefs, and then she met more Latina Muslims that were my friends and she like “okay, wow, well as long as you believe in God I'm going to be happy for you.” And now how she sees me because I'm a single mother, and she told me not long ago, she told me like “you know one thing I feel, I don't feel scared about you too much because I feel like in a sense you protect yourself when you go out there, you cover, you don't have…,” the danger is less for me is what she said. And I said “okay, that's nice.” I'm good with my family.
T: Yeah good, because we heard, when they came to class, we heard about a wide variety of responses. It's good they've learned to accept you.
MM: yes, thank God.
T: So you just answered the next question regarding discrimination for wearing a scarf, um, so you've never been discriminated against you feel like?
MM: I actually feel more respected, even with men, maybe it's just we're so blessed to live in a place like Houston, where there's so much diversity and cultures and we're all like the melting pot, you know? I don't know if that could be the reason why, I personally have never experienced anything negative which I know there’s a lot. Like you know people they will disrespect Muslims based on how we dress or they'll say “Oh, you're not American” when you're born and raised here. You know all these things but I've never had any situation, I had people act like nice, more like open doors or more respectful.
T: Um, so does seeing violent hate crimes against hijabi woman have any impact on your decision or do you think if you had a close friend who was discriminated against that would affect your decision to cover
MM: Say that again
T: oh sorry, does seeing violent hate crimes against woman who cover impact your decision at all, or if you had a close friend would this impact your decision?
MM: About wearing my scarf?
T: Mhm
MM: No, it hasn't done so now. No, not at all. Actually, to be honest with you. when I became a Muslim in 2001, and I wore my scarf for 6 years, I don't want to get into details of what happened, but there was a time where I went through a tough time in my life and I made the decision to take my scarf off and I went through a really dark time in my life in that time and I can say that I became astray, I got away from the community. So during that time my life became really depressed and it was a really dark time so when I started coming back to the community and I felt that connection again with our Creator I started feeling like “wow this is the reason I've been so lost is because I disconnected myself” so for me as soon as I came back like a month later it just happened to be Election Day and you know how Trump, he campaigned, having a sense of hatred against Muslims, for me that was the time to put my scarf back on, it was more like kind of like I'm Muslim, I'm right here, come at me, and then tell me something, you know maybe because I have that personality, no one’s gonna come and punk me around, you know, like in a sense it was like this pride thing, you know, and I started putting on my scarf but at the same time it gave me a sense of protection and confidence of myself, and that's where I go back to-- this is kind of a protection even within myself to be conscious of my actions or anything, I'm a Muslim so I gotta behave like a Muslim.
T: Essentially, how do you view other Muslim women who do not cover?
MM: I respect everyone's journey, it's a journey, that we have no right to judge. And I'm really that kind of person, I don't like someone to be like, “oh you got to cover,” like no, you worry about yourself and everyone needs to worry about themselves like when we face God ain't nobody gonna be worried about nobody you know like yes you can encourage someone but we're no one to judge, so, I guess to make answer shorter- I respect everyone's journey, so if they cover, they don't, I don't see them any less of any different you know they can have a better heart, then I do and I cover. We don't know.
T: When you took the scarf off for a while did people in your community make judgements about you not wearing it?
MM: Um, when I took my scarf off at that time, I disconnected from the community so it was kind of like they didn't know. But you will find people who will come and have comments, like they you know are like "you took your scarf off?" In the end, personally, I don't think we have the right to judge because nobody knows what we go through, and nobody knows our connection with God, it doesn't mean if you took your scarf off your connection is any less, we don't know.
T: How do you feel when you hear people say covering is a sign of oppression?
MM: I don't think so, at all, again, I'm kind of person that I don't allow no-one to tell me what to do, especially if I don't want to do it, so, I guess that's just me being born and raised in Houston, but I don't know how other cultures are. There could be some women that from other countries where it’s like kind of embedded in their culture in a sense, so they just feel like they have to, or somebody like their father says they have to, but me personally, you know, it's no oppression for me, or even for people that I've been around, we're American Muslims you know- we're not forced to do anything so that's a blessing that we have.
T: So what is your opinion of other cultures or other countries that mandate covering or even mosques that mandate it?
MM: As far as covering this is part of our religion. We can't come and say, you don't have to, this is not part of the culture- I mean part of the religion- but I don't agree with someone forcing you either. Because, that's something really personal.
T: Uh- what is your opinion of countries or mosques that force covering?
MM; Um, okay so like going on to a mosque, if someone's a Muslim, out of respect I think you should cover, you know. But at least here in America, for Americans, no one is going to go and force you, to wear your scarf when you're leaving out the door, but out of respect it's kind of like proper to put on a scarf. But someone like here like in our community, being as its a lot more open minded, even here there's women that cover here with the scarf so it's proper that if they don't wear the scarf we're not going to treat them less, no one's going to still say here put this scarf on top of your head, if she's going to pray then then of course the Muslim is going to have common sense to put it on. But to go sit on the lounge, she don't want to wear a scarf- that's fine.
T: Mhm yeah! I was also curious as to your perspective of um, men and women being separated, because this worship area is a lot more open in allowing men and women to be in the same room, but I guess how do you feel about that separation or not allowing women to lead prayer?
MM: I have no comment about a woman leading prayer because I've never seen that, I'm just used to the man leading the prayer, but you know we do stand behind the man when we pray, and I think it would make sense because of how you've seen us praying, if you can imagine you're feeling like “oh my gosh there's a guy back there looking at me, prostrate is very uncomfortable,” so I think our setup is wonderful and the time of a prophet they didn't have a divider, or like a woman behind a wall. So for me, personally, I have my son who's about to be 21 years old he has, he's a person with disabilities, so for me, having him get bigger, when I would go to musjeds that did have the seperation, I would have some differences with people who were like “you can't have your son here”, and I'm like- “have common sense- he's special- what do you want me to do?- I'm a single mother- you want me to ask just any random person to watch my son for me to make you feel better?”- like for that reason I also was kind of like away- wherever I go I bring my son- but here I don't have to worry about it, for me, it's a big blessing for me-- something that during my dark times I would pray for, like Oh God, first that was an excuse for why I'm not around but once I came here it’s like oh, that worry no longer exists, because I no longer have to ask someone to watch my son for me while I pray, I can watch my son praying in front of- which is something I never had- I didn't have before. So that part is really emotional for me because it makes a big difference in my life to bring my son in this journey with me instead of leaving him behind at a babysitters for example.
T: I loved watching him when he was in there, maybe he didn't go through the motions but he was obviously connected to what was being said.
MM: Exactly, and I enjoy that because now he has like, we both do, a sense of belonging, coming back here in October, it's healthy- even just because I have the support
Okay great. Yeah it's been great, the community, the setup, is what I had always wished for, and now I'm so blessed and grateful and thankful to our Creator that we finally have it, and for it to be Spanish Muslim that's even better, we feel empowered, we feel like we have our own community, you know, which is, we no longer have to try to fit in somewhere we are who we are. It makes me more confident about my identity. I'm a Muslim but I'm a Latina too, I'm a Houstonian, with roots of Mexican, Mexican American.
T: That was great, thank you, sorry.
MM: No it's okay, I'm sorry.
T: No, no it's okay! It shows just how important these issues are and maybe just the lack of understanding of we have to recognize the complexities of a community, and just religion generally, and how personal it really is. It's not- you can't just blanket statement and say "covering is oppression", because obviously your understanding of covering is so much deeper, and more nuanced. So that was good.
MM: And even before I was Muslim, we believed in the Virgin Mary, and the Virgin Mary she has her own chapter in the Quran, and for me it's like “wow, God, gives her as an example of a woman, she's covered,? you know so- now I don't see it as a foreign thing I see it as something respectful. Like you know, you respect yourself and you try to be modest and humble.
T: Okay, um so you've touched on this alot before, your identity, so in the United States, a lot of people, this came up with the election, have trouble understanding people can have multiple identities and so in the election it was clear, that you know muslims and American identity were kind of at odds, and even in some ways Mexican and American identities are kind of at odds, and then you know obviously hispanics are a very small minority of the Muslim World, in general. I guess- how do you respond when people say all of your identities are incompatible with each other or have you ever struggled with that personally?
MM: ?
T: So when people say that like being Muslim and being American don't go together, or being Muslim in Hispanic don't go together, or even being Mexican and American don't go together, I guess how do you respond?
MM: I really don't respond too much because I know that's just a lack of their knowledge. Like they don't know about Islam and how Islam is for everyone, I went to China before and I seen a lot of China Muslims, and same thing, even us as Muslims, when I first became Muslim I thought the majority was Arab, and it's not, it's Indonesians, they're the majority and it's just, like, whenever you have lack of knowledge you just don't know- I was there at one time, I didn't know Islam was for everyone at one point, so everything is like I have no response, God give knowledge to those who seek. Did I answer the question?
T: No yeah you just kind of disregard it and just hope that they get the knowledge that they need.
MM: Yeah it's up to them and hopefully God will put somebody that they will be open to, let's say like a Muslim person that they can know and be open to, asking questions, and hopefully they will be curious to read and I just hope based on what the media tells you what Islam is about and Muslims are about but they kind of have their own sense of education of who we are we are Muslims could be from any part of the world, even being Latino Muslim we could have a Columbian, we could have a Mexican, we could a Salvadorian, you know from all parts of Latin America, you know, we're all a little different, in the end what makes us the same is we are all Muslims, we believe in one God, we pray the same way we pray the same time, like that's just what brings us together is our shahada which is declaration of faith.
T: When you were young did you have trouble fitting in because you were Mexican-from a Mexican family- and I guess have those issues been in a minority as you've moved forward in life?
M: As In my journey as a Muslim?
T: mhm
MM: In the beginning of my journey of Islam, I was really blessed to have a group of friends that we were all from different parts of the world, so I didn't really, I guess, everyone respected their own identity- me? I was the one Mexican American Muslim, in my group, and the other one was a Pakistani American- I'm losing my trail of thought...
T: that's okay *laughter*
MM: Tell me again the question
T: Did you ever face difficulty growing up being a Mexican American, a minority, did you face difficulty and did it affect your journey.
M: I guess maybe in the beginning, when I first took my shahada, it was on a Tuesday night, and Friday came and I was so excited to go to jummah prayer- our Friday prayer- and I was nervous and scared to go to my first thing, and I ended up going to a musjed close to me and I remember walking in and I remember I was excited, nervous, and I said Saalam Alaikum to them and they just turned around and they didn't answer me, they just looked at me up and down, and I felt so odd and and weird, I felt like an outcast. What was different about me and them is they were Pakistani and they could tell that I'm not, so I think that's the only time I felt a sense of like, bad, I guess, you know, trying to fit in somewhere and I don't belong but after that I started meeting more Latino-American-Muslims so I was okay, it didn't affect me.
T: that was just sad for your first time going, you were so excited.
NM: Yeah it really was, they bust my bubble, but it's okay, now that I know more about different cultures, because I'm around a lot of different people now I'm like, that's just their culture. They're not too opened minded about other people and that's their loss, not mine, because I’m going to know about their culture, and the Arab culture, and the Indonesian culture, because I have my open mind and I'm going to embrace anyone and maybe try the food, I like to know different cultures, it's a beautiful thing, and if they can't be open then that's their lost.
T: This is the last question but, when the mainstream media attacks Islam, do you feel then need to defend it, and if so, how do you defend it?
MM: Of course, I'm a human and if it upsets me when they're saying things that I know is not true, of course it gets me upset, but I just try not to get too much into politics, before I used to but before there was not really social media. Now in my older time in my life I don't like to get into much in politics because that's one thing- when somebody has their mind made up it's really hard to change it, until they have their experience of actually reading or getting information from the right source instead of being allowed to be brainwashed, so it's hard to kind of convince someone, so I try to stay away from it, because I know myself, I don't want to cave into that argumentative type of approach with anyone, or even allow anyone to make my blood boil to that point of getting upset myself because I'm not- they're not understanding what is not right, what you're saying, that's not true. I just kind of step away, I just show in an indirect way, maybe post a video about Islam, for example. If they see it let it marinate in their brains however they want, but I don't try to convince anyone overall in my social media world.
T: You said you became a Muslim in 2001- was that before or after 9/11?
M: Before, March 27, 2001.
T: How did going through 9/11 as a new Muslim affect your view of not only being a Muslim but also the media?
M: I had already been studying Islam for a year and a half it's not like I took my shahada right away. There's people that do. I studied it for a year and a half, so I knew then that, even me if I had met Muslims before Islam, based on the actions of certain Muslims I would have probably ran away from the religion. If I would have met Muslims first, but I found Islam first so I learned about the teachings of Islam. So I know there's certain things that Muslims as a person there's no- there's no holy person- every human being will make a mistake, so as Muslims, they claim something, that's just their human error of not being perfect. I know Islam is the truth, the right way of living, the last and final message that God sent to humanity so seeing a group of people who interpret the Quran their own ways and do something wrong, it didn't really affect me to a point to question my religion, never have, but it made me feel sad that that was that people would interpret Islam in that way as violent because I knew that wasn't true. And, as things got worse after 9/11 and all this radicalism after the Iraq War, for example, it kind of made me mad. These people are proclaiming to be Muslim, chopping off heads, that's not Islam and it's sad when people that don't know nothing about Islam looks at that like “wow look at these Muslims” like that's what we are. And then when they look at Islam they put terror next to it and it's like, it's sad for me that people would view Muslims in this way like it's not true. I'm sorry if I'm going all over the place.
T: No it's good, one more thing, I interviewed someone whose brothers were in 2nd-3rd grade around this time and they were affected by like being called terrorists as young children so I was just curious if you had experienced anything along those lines, or your son, if there was any connection immediately after or in the years following that?
M: No, thank god I never really had a bad experience. I just remember the beginning of 2002, the U.S. had already gone to war with Afghanistan and it was the beginning of all that craziness, I remember driving down Beltway 8 and there was this man trying to run me off and I stood my ground. I've always been a rebel, I've never really been afraid of anyone. Now I'm afraid only of God, that's it, so it was kind of like he was trying to get me to be scared but because I'm not a scared person. So as this is happening, I could tell he was trying to intimidate me and I saw a cop coming up so I pulled over and I said “hey this guy tried to run me out, the truck,” I told him the information and the cop -Boom- zoomed over and pulled that truck over and I honked "haha" but that was the only time where I had something happen to me personally.
T: Crazy Story
MM: I laugh about this but I'm really thankful like God doesn't give us anything we can't handle. If someone is to come at me like this, disrespectful, we're supposed to be humble, at the end it's the deeds we are collecting. I don't want someone to push my button in the wrong way that's going to make me get a bad deed because of this person. I'm just so thankful that I haven't had these bad experiences with people, I've had good experiences, but I know there are people out there who don't have it so good maybe depending on the geographic area where they live. There could be people that's less tolerant but here living in Houston I've always seen it that it's a very friendly city.
MM: sure
T: In addition to presenting to our class we are creating a website to publish our findings, when we present your quotations do you give us approval to use your name?
M: Sure
T: We would like to publish interviews with photos, are you okay with having your photo published on our website?
M: Sure
T: I'll get your email and you can send me a photo.
T: Would you be able to say your name, age (if you don't want to say age just like spectrum of age) and occupation and hometown for me?
MM: My name in Monica Morales and I go by Noor, that’s my Muslim name, which means “light from God.” I'm a Houstonian born and raised here and my family are from Mexico. I'm in my mid-30s. I'm an insurance agent and a caregiver for my son.
T: Okay, could you talk a little bit about your relationship to Islam, and just how you interpret it today?
MM: I came to find Islam in 1999. I had always been a really open minded person, and I was really young back then, so I was raised as a Catholic but there were a lot of things I would not agree with and I was kind of confused so I was in search for something to fulfill my soul and my understanding of my relationship with the higher power, with the creator. So, I used to study different types of religions and I used to be very mystical, very spiritual and I found Islam at an insurance company where I was working. A lady who came into my office, was wearing the hijab which is a scarf. She was from Guatemala, so when she started talking to me in Spanish and I was like wow how did you learn Spanish, so she's like “I'm from Guatemala” and I'm like oh wow, like, at the same time she was like glowing so I was really attracted to the appearance so I asked her questions and she told me “I'm a Muslim, my religion is Islam,” and she started talking to me about prophets that I had already known about growing up. So I was really curious, so we started a, like, a friendship at that time, she gave me her number and a few days later I met another man who ended up being my teacher in insurance policy, and he asked if I had heard of Islam and have I ever come across a Quran, and I told him no so he was the first person to bring me a Quran. And back then there was tapes, so he bought me a tape. It was a message called “Sincere Advice,” and some of the subtitles of that same video is the “Purpose of Life.” So I studied, I was going to the lady her name is Lilliana so I would go to her house and we would talk about religion, talk about prophets, and I would stay there like 4 to 5 hours at a time. So, she was like “oh you know they have classes in the musjed, would you like to go?” And, you know, I was intrigued so I was like “okay, let’s go,” so I would go to the mosque like twice a week. I studied Islam for a year and half before I took you know, before I said this is what is for me. One of the things, one of the reasons why I took so long was because of the scarves, there's certain people that’s like once you take your shahada like that’s it, you know, you cover because this is part of our religion and I wasn't ready for that, that transformation appearance wise. But I was so, like, agreeing with everything, with the teachings of Islam and how we view God as one, and the angels, the hereafter, the day of judgement, like everything just made so much sense but I personally wasn't ready for this [points to hijab]. So until like a year and a half later, I met a lady from Palestine and she was like you know what, this [hijab] comes in time, no one can force you to put on anything, if you're not ready for it, then that's not what God is going to judge you based on. He judges based on, he knows the heart, the intentions of us, this will come on your own. Which it did.
T: If you could say maybe, um, your sect of Islam?
MM: I'm Sunni, like the teachings of the prophet Mohammad, peace be upon him.
T: Okay and, I guess, you talked about how you decided to cover, but I guess like how do you interpret the Quran and how closely do you follow it?
MM: Um, I interpret the Quran as the way of life, at least how I should, like a manual, like we all- everything, television, radio, we have these things that need manuals so as humans we have our manual, for me the Quran is like my manual, um, there's a lot of things that as a human, even with certain emotions women can get, there's times that I go into the Quran and it makes me view certain things in a different way versus before when I was non-Muslim I didn't have any regulation, structure or regulation, because I grew up in a really tough time, you know the early, late 80s early 90s here in Houston it was nothing but gangs and all this and I was in that environment when I was a kid so I never really had any structure, any regulation, or anyone telling me what to do. So I kind of lived my life in a rebel kind of way, so finding Islam for me it gave me structure, it gave me like principles, how to live and act in certain ways.
T: How does your specific Hispanic culture impact your religious practices and I guess how you understand Islam day to day?
MM: We don't mix culture and religion, but I do find a lot of words in Arabic, we have same certain words in Spanish, and I guess that's because Islam...Muslims ruled Spain for 800 and something years back then so we have a lot of Spanish words and Arabic words in the Spanish language. Even me, a lot of times people think I'm Arab. I've been to Syria before the war, and I was in Kuwait and a lot of people were like “oh you're Arab.” But no, I'm really a proud Mexican-American Muslim. I wear my scarf for my identity. For me, it also helps me, as a person, to kind of keep me in a check in this crazy world. We're not, we're still, at the end of the day we're humans we're not perfect, you know there's always the devil that tries to make us astray, but this is a reminder for myself that you know, your Muslim, so you know you got to be right. Just a reminder, like my shield even against myself if that makes any sense.
T: The next question is what are your biggest influencers of your decision to cover. So just building upon what you already said about taking your time, I guess besides that.
MM: I think no one really influenced me, it was just something that for me that I chose a different lifestyle because our religion is not just like we're going to go to church on a Sunday, it's how you live your life and practice life, how you eat, how you shower, how you do all these things so for me it was just something, a personal choice between me and God that it helps me to be more humble, so it was just kind of like, just my choice. Protection against, for myself. It's a different thing because before men could be like oh, you know, checking you out and you know, and they may not even be listening to you because they're too busy looking at your physical, but me wearing my scarf is like a protection and it gives me a sense of being respected more and thank God I've never had any kind of experience where someone comes to disrespect me because of my appearance as a Muslim like my dressing. Did I answer the question?
T: Yeah, the only other thought I want to add, is are there any other women in your family who are Muslim or do cover?
MM: No, no just me.
T: Was that difficult interacting with family members who don't understand?
MM: I've been Muslim 16 years now so, me kind of like how I am, of course my family knows me, they know I'm a kind of person I'm going to do, everyone respects me as a person so they don't really cross lines with me. When I first became Muslim in 2001, my mom was upset with me at first. She was devastated. She was going up and down the house crying like “oh my God, what's wrong with you? You're not Indian, you’re not Arab, you're Mexican!” She didn't understand this whole thing. I think after time she started to understand, I told her our beliefs, and then she met more Latina Muslims that were my friends and she like “okay, wow, well as long as you believe in God I'm going to be happy for you.” And now how she sees me because I'm a single mother, and she told me not long ago, she told me like “you know one thing I feel, I don't feel scared about you too much because I feel like in a sense you protect yourself when you go out there, you cover, you don't have…,” the danger is less for me is what she said. And I said “okay, that's nice.” I'm good with my family.
T: Yeah good, because we heard, when they came to class, we heard about a wide variety of responses. It's good they've learned to accept you.
MM: yes, thank God.
T: So you just answered the next question regarding discrimination for wearing a scarf, um, so you've never been discriminated against you feel like?
MM: I actually feel more respected, even with men, maybe it's just we're so blessed to live in a place like Houston, where there's so much diversity and cultures and we're all like the melting pot, you know? I don't know if that could be the reason why, I personally have never experienced anything negative which I know there’s a lot. Like you know people they will disrespect Muslims based on how we dress or they'll say “Oh, you're not American” when you're born and raised here. You know all these things but I've never had any situation, I had people act like nice, more like open doors or more respectful.
T: Um, so does seeing violent hate crimes against hijabi woman have any impact on your decision or do you think if you had a close friend who was discriminated against that would affect your decision to cover
MM: Say that again
T: oh sorry, does seeing violent hate crimes against woman who cover impact your decision at all, or if you had a close friend would this impact your decision?
MM: About wearing my scarf?
T: Mhm
MM: No, it hasn't done so now. No, not at all. Actually, to be honest with you. when I became a Muslim in 2001, and I wore my scarf for 6 years, I don't want to get into details of what happened, but there was a time where I went through a tough time in my life and I made the decision to take my scarf off and I went through a really dark time in my life in that time and I can say that I became astray, I got away from the community. So during that time my life became really depressed and it was a really dark time so when I started coming back to the community and I felt that connection again with our Creator I started feeling like “wow this is the reason I've been so lost is because I disconnected myself” so for me as soon as I came back like a month later it just happened to be Election Day and you know how Trump, he campaigned, having a sense of hatred against Muslims, for me that was the time to put my scarf back on, it was more like kind of like I'm Muslim, I'm right here, come at me, and then tell me something, you know maybe because I have that personality, no one’s gonna come and punk me around, you know, like in a sense it was like this pride thing, you know, and I started putting on my scarf but at the same time it gave me a sense of protection and confidence of myself, and that's where I go back to-- this is kind of a protection even within myself to be conscious of my actions or anything, I'm a Muslim so I gotta behave like a Muslim.
T: Essentially, how do you view other Muslim women who do not cover?
MM: I respect everyone's journey, it's a journey, that we have no right to judge. And I'm really that kind of person, I don't like someone to be like, “oh you got to cover,” like no, you worry about yourself and everyone needs to worry about themselves like when we face God ain't nobody gonna be worried about nobody you know like yes you can encourage someone but we're no one to judge, so, I guess to make answer shorter- I respect everyone's journey, so if they cover, they don't, I don't see them any less of any different you know they can have a better heart, then I do and I cover. We don't know.
T: When you took the scarf off for a while did people in your community make judgements about you not wearing it?
MM: Um, when I took my scarf off at that time, I disconnected from the community so it was kind of like they didn't know. But you will find people who will come and have comments, like they you know are like "you took your scarf off?" In the end, personally, I don't think we have the right to judge because nobody knows what we go through, and nobody knows our connection with God, it doesn't mean if you took your scarf off your connection is any less, we don't know.
T: How do you feel when you hear people say covering is a sign of oppression?
MM: I don't think so, at all, again, I'm kind of person that I don't allow no-one to tell me what to do, especially if I don't want to do it, so, I guess that's just me being born and raised in Houston, but I don't know how other cultures are. There could be some women that from other countries where it’s like kind of embedded in their culture in a sense, so they just feel like they have to, or somebody like their father says they have to, but me personally, you know, it's no oppression for me, or even for people that I've been around, we're American Muslims you know- we're not forced to do anything so that's a blessing that we have.
T: So what is your opinion of other cultures or other countries that mandate covering or even mosques that mandate it?
MM: As far as covering this is part of our religion. We can't come and say, you don't have to, this is not part of the culture- I mean part of the religion- but I don't agree with someone forcing you either. Because, that's something really personal.
T: Uh- what is your opinion of countries or mosques that force covering?
MM; Um, okay so like going on to a mosque, if someone's a Muslim, out of respect I think you should cover, you know. But at least here in America, for Americans, no one is going to go and force you, to wear your scarf when you're leaving out the door, but out of respect it's kind of like proper to put on a scarf. But someone like here like in our community, being as its a lot more open minded, even here there's women that cover here with the scarf so it's proper that if they don't wear the scarf we're not going to treat them less, no one's going to still say here put this scarf on top of your head, if she's going to pray then then of course the Muslim is going to have common sense to put it on. But to go sit on the lounge, she don't want to wear a scarf- that's fine.
T: Mhm yeah! I was also curious as to your perspective of um, men and women being separated, because this worship area is a lot more open in allowing men and women to be in the same room, but I guess how do you feel about that separation or not allowing women to lead prayer?
MM: I have no comment about a woman leading prayer because I've never seen that, I'm just used to the man leading the prayer, but you know we do stand behind the man when we pray, and I think it would make sense because of how you've seen us praying, if you can imagine you're feeling like “oh my gosh there's a guy back there looking at me, prostrate is very uncomfortable,” so I think our setup is wonderful and the time of a prophet they didn't have a divider, or like a woman behind a wall. So for me, personally, I have my son who's about to be 21 years old he has, he's a person with disabilities, so for me, having him get bigger, when I would go to musjeds that did have the seperation, I would have some differences with people who were like “you can't have your son here”, and I'm like- “have common sense- he's special- what do you want me to do?- I'm a single mother- you want me to ask just any random person to watch my son for me to make you feel better?”- like for that reason I also was kind of like away- wherever I go I bring my son- but here I don't have to worry about it, for me, it's a big blessing for me-- something that during my dark times I would pray for, like Oh God, first that was an excuse for why I'm not around but once I came here it’s like oh, that worry no longer exists, because I no longer have to ask someone to watch my son for me while I pray, I can watch my son praying in front of- which is something I never had- I didn't have before. So that part is really emotional for me because it makes a big difference in my life to bring my son in this journey with me instead of leaving him behind at a babysitters for example.
T: I loved watching him when he was in there, maybe he didn't go through the motions but he was obviously connected to what was being said.
MM: Exactly, and I enjoy that because now he has like, we both do, a sense of belonging, coming back here in October, it's healthy- even just because I have the support
Okay great. Yeah it's been great, the community, the setup, is what I had always wished for, and now I'm so blessed and grateful and thankful to our Creator that we finally have it, and for it to be Spanish Muslim that's even better, we feel empowered, we feel like we have our own community, you know, which is, we no longer have to try to fit in somewhere we are who we are. It makes me more confident about my identity. I'm a Muslim but I'm a Latina too, I'm a Houstonian, with roots of Mexican, Mexican American.
T: That was great, thank you, sorry.
MM: No it's okay, I'm sorry.
T: No, no it's okay! It shows just how important these issues are and maybe just the lack of understanding of we have to recognize the complexities of a community, and just religion generally, and how personal it really is. It's not- you can't just blanket statement and say "covering is oppression", because obviously your understanding of covering is so much deeper, and more nuanced. So that was good.
MM: And even before I was Muslim, we believed in the Virgin Mary, and the Virgin Mary she has her own chapter in the Quran, and for me it's like “wow, God, gives her as an example of a woman, she's covered,? you know so- now I don't see it as a foreign thing I see it as something respectful. Like you know, you respect yourself and you try to be modest and humble.
T: Okay, um so you've touched on this alot before, your identity, so in the United States, a lot of people, this came up with the election, have trouble understanding people can have multiple identities and so in the election it was clear, that you know muslims and American identity were kind of at odds, and even in some ways Mexican and American identities are kind of at odds, and then you know obviously hispanics are a very small minority of the Muslim World, in general. I guess- how do you respond when people say all of your identities are incompatible with each other or have you ever struggled with that personally?
MM: ?
T: So when people say that like being Muslim and being American don't go together, or being Muslim in Hispanic don't go together, or even being Mexican and American don't go together, I guess how do you respond?
MM: I really don't respond too much because I know that's just a lack of their knowledge. Like they don't know about Islam and how Islam is for everyone, I went to China before and I seen a lot of China Muslims, and same thing, even us as Muslims, when I first became Muslim I thought the majority was Arab, and it's not, it's Indonesians, they're the majority and it's just, like, whenever you have lack of knowledge you just don't know- I was there at one time, I didn't know Islam was for everyone at one point, so everything is like I have no response, God give knowledge to those who seek. Did I answer the question?
T: No yeah you just kind of disregard it and just hope that they get the knowledge that they need.
MM: Yeah it's up to them and hopefully God will put somebody that they will be open to, let's say like a Muslim person that they can know and be open to, asking questions, and hopefully they will be curious to read and I just hope based on what the media tells you what Islam is about and Muslims are about but they kind of have their own sense of education of who we are we are Muslims could be from any part of the world, even being Latino Muslim we could have a Columbian, we could have a Mexican, we could a Salvadorian, you know from all parts of Latin America, you know, we're all a little different, in the end what makes us the same is we are all Muslims, we believe in one God, we pray the same way we pray the same time, like that's just what brings us together is our shahada which is declaration of faith.
T: When you were young did you have trouble fitting in because you were Mexican-from a Mexican family- and I guess have those issues been in a minority as you've moved forward in life?
M: As In my journey as a Muslim?
T: mhm
MM: In the beginning of my journey of Islam, I was really blessed to have a group of friends that we were all from different parts of the world, so I didn't really, I guess, everyone respected their own identity- me? I was the one Mexican American Muslim, in my group, and the other one was a Pakistani American- I'm losing my trail of thought...
T: that's okay *laughter*
MM: Tell me again the question
T: Did you ever face difficulty growing up being a Mexican American, a minority, did you face difficulty and did it affect your journey.
M: I guess maybe in the beginning, when I first took my shahada, it was on a Tuesday night, and Friday came and I was so excited to go to jummah prayer- our Friday prayer- and I was nervous and scared to go to my first thing, and I ended up going to a musjed close to me and I remember walking in and I remember I was excited, nervous, and I said Saalam Alaikum to them and they just turned around and they didn't answer me, they just looked at me up and down, and I felt so odd and and weird, I felt like an outcast. What was different about me and them is they were Pakistani and they could tell that I'm not, so I think that's the only time I felt a sense of like, bad, I guess, you know, trying to fit in somewhere and I don't belong but after that I started meeting more Latino-American-Muslims so I was okay, it didn't affect me.
T: that was just sad for your first time going, you were so excited.
NM: Yeah it really was, they bust my bubble, but it's okay, now that I know more about different cultures, because I'm around a lot of different people now I'm like, that's just their culture. They're not too opened minded about other people and that's their loss, not mine, because I’m going to know about their culture, and the Arab culture, and the Indonesian culture, because I have my open mind and I'm going to embrace anyone and maybe try the food, I like to know different cultures, it's a beautiful thing, and if they can't be open then that's their lost.
T: This is the last question but, when the mainstream media attacks Islam, do you feel then need to defend it, and if so, how do you defend it?
MM: Of course, I'm a human and if it upsets me when they're saying things that I know is not true, of course it gets me upset, but I just try not to get too much into politics, before I used to but before there was not really social media. Now in my older time in my life I don't like to get into much in politics because that's one thing- when somebody has their mind made up it's really hard to change it, until they have their experience of actually reading or getting information from the right source instead of being allowed to be brainwashed, so it's hard to kind of convince someone, so I try to stay away from it, because I know myself, I don't want to cave into that argumentative type of approach with anyone, or even allow anyone to make my blood boil to that point of getting upset myself because I'm not- they're not understanding what is not right, what you're saying, that's not true. I just kind of step away, I just show in an indirect way, maybe post a video about Islam, for example. If they see it let it marinate in their brains however they want, but I don't try to convince anyone overall in my social media world.
T: You said you became a Muslim in 2001- was that before or after 9/11?
M: Before, March 27, 2001.
T: How did going through 9/11 as a new Muslim affect your view of not only being a Muslim but also the media?
M: I had already been studying Islam for a year and a half it's not like I took my shahada right away. There's people that do. I studied it for a year and a half, so I knew then that, even me if I had met Muslims before Islam, based on the actions of certain Muslims I would have probably ran away from the religion. If I would have met Muslims first, but I found Islam first so I learned about the teachings of Islam. So I know there's certain things that Muslims as a person there's no- there's no holy person- every human being will make a mistake, so as Muslims, they claim something, that's just their human error of not being perfect. I know Islam is the truth, the right way of living, the last and final message that God sent to humanity so seeing a group of people who interpret the Quran their own ways and do something wrong, it didn't really affect me to a point to question my religion, never have, but it made me feel sad that that was that people would interpret Islam in that way as violent because I knew that wasn't true. And, as things got worse after 9/11 and all this radicalism after the Iraq War, for example, it kind of made me mad. These people are proclaiming to be Muslim, chopping off heads, that's not Islam and it's sad when people that don't know nothing about Islam looks at that like “wow look at these Muslims” like that's what we are. And then when they look at Islam they put terror next to it and it's like, it's sad for me that people would view Muslims in this way like it's not true. I'm sorry if I'm going all over the place.
T: No it's good, one more thing, I interviewed someone whose brothers were in 2nd-3rd grade around this time and they were affected by like being called terrorists as young children so I was just curious if you had experienced anything along those lines, or your son, if there was any connection immediately after or in the years following that?
M: No, thank god I never really had a bad experience. I just remember the beginning of 2002, the U.S. had already gone to war with Afghanistan and it was the beginning of all that craziness, I remember driving down Beltway 8 and there was this man trying to run me off and I stood my ground. I've always been a rebel, I've never really been afraid of anyone. Now I'm afraid only of God, that's it, so it was kind of like he was trying to get me to be scared but because I'm not a scared person. So as this is happening, I could tell he was trying to intimidate me and I saw a cop coming up so I pulled over and I said “hey this guy tried to run me out, the truck,” I told him the information and the cop -Boom- zoomed over and pulled that truck over and I honked "haha" but that was the only time where I had something happen to me personally.
T: Crazy Story
MM: I laugh about this but I'm really thankful like God doesn't give us anything we can't handle. If someone is to come at me like this, disrespectful, we're supposed to be humble, at the end it's the deeds we are collecting. I don't want someone to push my button in the wrong way that's going to make me get a bad deed because of this person. I'm just so thankful that I haven't had these bad experiences with people, I've had good experiences, but I know there are people out there who don't have it so good maybe depending on the geographic area where they live. There could be people that's less tolerant but here living in Houston I've always seen it that it's a very friendly city.