Name: Yasmin Rahmat
Age: 21
Occupation: Senior at Rice, Intern at OpenStax
Hometown: Tulsa, OK
SC: Can you talk a little bit about your relationship to Islam? Like your sect, personal connection to the Quran, and choices based on culture or theology?
YR: Yeah. So I don’t like particularly.. I mean I guess I follow like Sunni Muslims, but I don’t make that separation because I’ve kind of grown up with Islam. So, my parents just taught me like how to pray and how to do everything, and then I went to the mosque every Sunday and I like learned how to read the Quran and stuff like that. So I follow everything, but I haven’t always known what it was, like the specific sects or where it’s come from. But yeah, so I have just kind of grown up with it and then at Rice, I am part of the Muslim Student Association [MSA]. I’m still practicing and stuff, but I haven’t like gotten more specific or religious since I’ve gotten to college. But now it’s more like my personal choice because my parents aren’t here to like make me go to church every sunday and they don’t like make me be apart of the MSA and stuff, so it’s more of a personal choice now.
SC: Awesome. So how does culture influence your religious practices and understanding of Islam? Like in relation to your country of origin or view of your family members?
YR: Yeah, so I’m from Indonesia, which is actually the country with the most Muslims in it. But also it’s not really associated with like Islam. I feel like when people say Islam it’s like somewhere in the Middle East or something like that. So, we have like very specific cultural things like the kinds of things we wear are very different from what people assume a Muslim woman would wear, or something like that, cause we don’t wear like the full covers and our Hijabs are done in a very specific style and stuff like that. So, even from the outside we look very different so it’s very distinct from a lot of the other Muslims that I’ve been surrounded with both in high school in Oklahoma and now at Rice. And then, also, even like little things like how we read the Quran, like we read a different style of lettering so it’s more like suited to the Indonesian language than regular Arabic Qurans where they’re like kind of very more traditional.
SC: What are the biggest influences on your decision to not wear a Hijab?
YR: I would say probably the biggest one is my mom because she didn’t start wearing a Hijab until maybe five years ago, and then she’s always said it is going to be my choice. Like she wants me to want to wear it rather than have her force me to wear things. And also, just kind of the culture I grew up in. So, I grew up in Oklahoma where we didn’t really have a huge Muslim community there and everyone was really Christian. So, it was kind of like of a weird thing. I think I only remember like one girl or maybe two in all four years of high school that wore the Hijab, so it was kind of a weird thing to do. I never really was drawn to it because it was like if I wear it, I will be super different. And even now, it’s just like that feeling of like being different if I wear it still follows me. I don’t have any desire to wear it because I didn’t grow up feeling like I wanted to wear it, and now even though I’m not as sensitive to the social stuff that comes with wearing a Hijab, I just like don’t really want to.
SC: That makes sense. Have you ever worn one? Like do you wear them to special occasions or the mosque?
YR: Yeah so I wear it when I go to the mosque, for sure. And now when I go to the mosque for Eid, or stuff like that, I will wear one. And another thing too is that I feel like when I wear it, I have to represent a certain standard and I don’t always wanna have that responsibility. Sometimes I just wanna do what I wanna do. Or sometimes I don’t feel very religious that day and there will be some months where I just don’t feel very connected to Islam, and I wouldn’t wanna wear it because I feel like it would be somewhat of a burden.
SC: Have you experienced discrimination based on your decision to not cover?
YR: Yeah. I think in America, it’s very subtle and unspoken. I never feel like outright discrimination like, “Oh, you should wear a Hijab because that makes you a better Muslim.” But there have definitely been comments, like sometimes from other girls growing up in the mosque they would say like, “Oh, I started wearing the Hijab,” and it’s just kind of like an unsaid thing that they expect me to also. But definitely from my family in Indonesia. Like I visited two summers ago and it’s always like, “Do you not wear the Hijab because you live in America?” Like it’s something I’m supposed to do, but because I live in America and other people don’t that America is stopping me from wearing it. So, mostly from my family at home.
SC: Do most of them cover?
YR: Yes, and if I don’t cover they won’t say anything like, “Oh, you’re a bad Muslim,” but it’s very implied.
SC: Does seeing violent hate crimes against hijabi women have any impact on your decision to not cover?
YR: Yes and no. It does impact my decision to not cover in that it makes me in a way, not glad that I don’t cover, but it makes me feel safer because I can’t be easily identified as a Muslim woman. But also, it doesn’t impact it because it doesn’t make me change anything, but it does make me realize how my choice not to cover makes me a little bit safer and makes me a little bit different. It also makes me a little bit more sensitive to events like this because sometimes when I hear about this, I want to talk about it, but then people will say, “Oh I didn’t even know you were Muslim. You don’t dress like one, you don’t look like one. I’ve never heard you talk about religion.” Because I don’t talk about religion very often unless I’m comfortable with somebody. So, a lot of people don’t know that I am Muslim and so it’s kind of like when these events happen, and because I don’t cover, sometimes it makes me feel like I have to be delicate in how i bring it up. Because if I start talking about it now people will be like, “Well, you’re only talking about it now because it’s like a hot topic and not because you care. Because you don’t cover, I’ve never heard you talk about religion before, and all of that stuff.” It’s a little bit trickier.
SC: Is there anything that would make you change your decision to not cover?
YR: I think the only thing that would change it if if I was like personally, I think it’s time for me to cover, like where I am now in my religious journey. But I don’t think anything from the outside, like any other person or the culture around me could force me to cover. Like even when I was in Indonesia, for example, I was there for like two months and I considered that maybe this was a good time to wear the Hijab just for two months because everyone else would be doing it. But because I have always kind of grown up not wearing it, it’s so ingrained in me and the only thing that could make me change that was me personally wanting to wear it not like anything else.
SC: So you didn’t wear it in your two months in Indonesia?
YR: No.
SC: So how do you view other Muslim women who cover versus Muslim women who don’t?
YR: I don’t think I have ever really thought of that, so that’s an interesting question. My instinct is to say that I don’t really see them any differently, but I guess I do. I kind of associate [women who cover] as having more knowledge, so if I ever like wanted to talk about my religion or had a question I feel like, implicitly, I would be more willing to go to someone who wore that instead of someone who didn’t because I would say, “Oh, because they wear it they must know a lot since they represent the religion.” Which is maybe wrong of me, but I do do that because I kind of associate them with knowing more.
SC: That makes sense. So how do you feel when you hear people say that covering is a sign of oppression? What is your perspective of countries or mosques that do require a woman to cover?
YR: I think that when I hear people say that I always feel like they’re being very judgmental and quick to judge because it’s something they’re uncomfortable with. Like people who say that have never been asked to cover, so they just don’t know and it makes them feel weird. And then with countries and mosques that make you cover, I get it. I think that I would feel weird if I went to a mosque without a Hijab on because I would feel like that was disrespectful. I feel like the mosque is a place to do that and so it does make sense to require it. But then like countries where you have to wear it like outside of the mosque maybe, I just feel like that laws like that can easily be misconstrued and it can just snowball from there. Like it’s more things. They have to cover up and then they have to do all of these other things. I don’t think there’s ever just a law where women have to wear the Hijab, there’s always like so many things that come with it. So, I feel like that’s a lot trickier than being forced to wear one in the mosque, which I think is appropriate because it’s the place of worship and where you should wear it.
SC: Makes sense. Do you feel the need to defend Islam when mainstream media attacks it? If so, how?
YR: I feel like I used to before I went to Rice, but now that I’m here Rice is a more open campus and people talk more openly about religion I don’t feel that anymore because I know that my community around me is really respectful. But I feel like if I had always stayed in Oklahoma or in an area where people didn’t talk about religion as much, or like religion was a taboo topic, I feel like I would still feel defensive, but I’m fortunate to be at Rice where I don’t feel like I have to defend it in any way.
SC: That’s awesome. Many people suggest that Muslim and American identity are incompatible. What do you think of that?
YR: That question itself kind of confuses me because there’s so many definitions of like American identity and Muslim identity, that I can’t say they’re mutually exclusive. But I can see why some people with however they chose to live their Muslim life, and however they see their American identity, I can see how that would be difficult.
SC: I think the question more means people of both sides of the extreme coin. Like people who live in the Middle East, who think the American way of life completely contradicts their values. And then people who live in America, who think Islam in un-American. More like the two extremes.
YR: I just think that whole divide is part of the problem. Like the people who live in the Middle East who live a very strict, Islamic life are saying, “Well, you can’t mix the two because they’re very opposite.” And then they kind of blame America as the problem, but then that thinking that Islam can’t conform itself to any kind of identity is part of the problem itself. And then on the other side, hearing people say that Muslims are part of the problem, I feel like it’s all just putting up a divide between a religion and a nationality. It’s comparing two different things and there’s always going to be a problem with that. I just feel like it’s very simplistic too. Like what do you mean by American? What do you mean by Muslim? You can’t put either category into a specific box.
Age: 21
Occupation: Senior at Rice, Intern at OpenStax
Hometown: Tulsa, OK
SC: Can you talk a little bit about your relationship to Islam? Like your sect, personal connection to the Quran, and choices based on culture or theology?
YR: Yeah. So I don’t like particularly.. I mean I guess I follow like Sunni Muslims, but I don’t make that separation because I’ve kind of grown up with Islam. So, my parents just taught me like how to pray and how to do everything, and then I went to the mosque every Sunday and I like learned how to read the Quran and stuff like that. So I follow everything, but I haven’t always known what it was, like the specific sects or where it’s come from. But yeah, so I have just kind of grown up with it and then at Rice, I am part of the Muslim Student Association [MSA]. I’m still practicing and stuff, but I haven’t like gotten more specific or religious since I’ve gotten to college. But now it’s more like my personal choice because my parents aren’t here to like make me go to church every sunday and they don’t like make me be apart of the MSA and stuff, so it’s more of a personal choice now.
SC: Awesome. So how does culture influence your religious practices and understanding of Islam? Like in relation to your country of origin or view of your family members?
YR: Yeah, so I’m from Indonesia, which is actually the country with the most Muslims in it. But also it’s not really associated with like Islam. I feel like when people say Islam it’s like somewhere in the Middle East or something like that. So, we have like very specific cultural things like the kinds of things we wear are very different from what people assume a Muslim woman would wear, or something like that, cause we don’t wear like the full covers and our Hijabs are done in a very specific style and stuff like that. So, even from the outside we look very different so it’s very distinct from a lot of the other Muslims that I’ve been surrounded with both in high school in Oklahoma and now at Rice. And then, also, even like little things like how we read the Quran, like we read a different style of lettering so it’s more like suited to the Indonesian language than regular Arabic Qurans where they’re like kind of very more traditional.
SC: What are the biggest influences on your decision to not wear a Hijab?
YR: I would say probably the biggest one is my mom because she didn’t start wearing a Hijab until maybe five years ago, and then she’s always said it is going to be my choice. Like she wants me to want to wear it rather than have her force me to wear things. And also, just kind of the culture I grew up in. So, I grew up in Oklahoma where we didn’t really have a huge Muslim community there and everyone was really Christian. So, it was kind of like of a weird thing. I think I only remember like one girl or maybe two in all four years of high school that wore the Hijab, so it was kind of a weird thing to do. I never really was drawn to it because it was like if I wear it, I will be super different. And even now, it’s just like that feeling of like being different if I wear it still follows me. I don’t have any desire to wear it because I didn’t grow up feeling like I wanted to wear it, and now even though I’m not as sensitive to the social stuff that comes with wearing a Hijab, I just like don’t really want to.
SC: That makes sense. Have you ever worn one? Like do you wear them to special occasions or the mosque?
YR: Yeah so I wear it when I go to the mosque, for sure. And now when I go to the mosque for Eid, or stuff like that, I will wear one. And another thing too is that I feel like when I wear it, I have to represent a certain standard and I don’t always wanna have that responsibility. Sometimes I just wanna do what I wanna do. Or sometimes I don’t feel very religious that day and there will be some months where I just don’t feel very connected to Islam, and I wouldn’t wanna wear it because I feel like it would be somewhat of a burden.
SC: Have you experienced discrimination based on your decision to not cover?
YR: Yeah. I think in America, it’s very subtle and unspoken. I never feel like outright discrimination like, “Oh, you should wear a Hijab because that makes you a better Muslim.” But there have definitely been comments, like sometimes from other girls growing up in the mosque they would say like, “Oh, I started wearing the Hijab,” and it’s just kind of like an unsaid thing that they expect me to also. But definitely from my family in Indonesia. Like I visited two summers ago and it’s always like, “Do you not wear the Hijab because you live in America?” Like it’s something I’m supposed to do, but because I live in America and other people don’t that America is stopping me from wearing it. So, mostly from my family at home.
SC: Do most of them cover?
YR: Yes, and if I don’t cover they won’t say anything like, “Oh, you’re a bad Muslim,” but it’s very implied.
SC: Does seeing violent hate crimes against hijabi women have any impact on your decision to not cover?
YR: Yes and no. It does impact my decision to not cover in that it makes me in a way, not glad that I don’t cover, but it makes me feel safer because I can’t be easily identified as a Muslim woman. But also, it doesn’t impact it because it doesn’t make me change anything, but it does make me realize how my choice not to cover makes me a little bit safer and makes me a little bit different. It also makes me a little bit more sensitive to events like this because sometimes when I hear about this, I want to talk about it, but then people will say, “Oh I didn’t even know you were Muslim. You don’t dress like one, you don’t look like one. I’ve never heard you talk about religion.” Because I don’t talk about religion very often unless I’m comfortable with somebody. So, a lot of people don’t know that I am Muslim and so it’s kind of like when these events happen, and because I don’t cover, sometimes it makes me feel like I have to be delicate in how i bring it up. Because if I start talking about it now people will be like, “Well, you’re only talking about it now because it’s like a hot topic and not because you care. Because you don’t cover, I’ve never heard you talk about religion before, and all of that stuff.” It’s a little bit trickier.
SC: Is there anything that would make you change your decision to not cover?
YR: I think the only thing that would change it if if I was like personally, I think it’s time for me to cover, like where I am now in my religious journey. But I don’t think anything from the outside, like any other person or the culture around me could force me to cover. Like even when I was in Indonesia, for example, I was there for like two months and I considered that maybe this was a good time to wear the Hijab just for two months because everyone else would be doing it. But because I have always kind of grown up not wearing it, it’s so ingrained in me and the only thing that could make me change that was me personally wanting to wear it not like anything else.
SC: So you didn’t wear it in your two months in Indonesia?
YR: No.
SC: So how do you view other Muslim women who cover versus Muslim women who don’t?
YR: I don’t think I have ever really thought of that, so that’s an interesting question. My instinct is to say that I don’t really see them any differently, but I guess I do. I kind of associate [women who cover] as having more knowledge, so if I ever like wanted to talk about my religion or had a question I feel like, implicitly, I would be more willing to go to someone who wore that instead of someone who didn’t because I would say, “Oh, because they wear it they must know a lot since they represent the religion.” Which is maybe wrong of me, but I do do that because I kind of associate them with knowing more.
SC: That makes sense. So how do you feel when you hear people say that covering is a sign of oppression? What is your perspective of countries or mosques that do require a woman to cover?
YR: I think that when I hear people say that I always feel like they’re being very judgmental and quick to judge because it’s something they’re uncomfortable with. Like people who say that have never been asked to cover, so they just don’t know and it makes them feel weird. And then with countries and mosques that make you cover, I get it. I think that I would feel weird if I went to a mosque without a Hijab on because I would feel like that was disrespectful. I feel like the mosque is a place to do that and so it does make sense to require it. But then like countries where you have to wear it like outside of the mosque maybe, I just feel like that laws like that can easily be misconstrued and it can just snowball from there. Like it’s more things. They have to cover up and then they have to do all of these other things. I don’t think there’s ever just a law where women have to wear the Hijab, there’s always like so many things that come with it. So, I feel like that’s a lot trickier than being forced to wear one in the mosque, which I think is appropriate because it’s the place of worship and where you should wear it.
SC: Makes sense. Do you feel the need to defend Islam when mainstream media attacks it? If so, how?
YR: I feel like I used to before I went to Rice, but now that I’m here Rice is a more open campus and people talk more openly about religion I don’t feel that anymore because I know that my community around me is really respectful. But I feel like if I had always stayed in Oklahoma or in an area where people didn’t talk about religion as much, or like religion was a taboo topic, I feel like I would still feel defensive, but I’m fortunate to be at Rice where I don’t feel like I have to defend it in any way.
SC: That’s awesome. Many people suggest that Muslim and American identity are incompatible. What do you think of that?
YR: That question itself kind of confuses me because there’s so many definitions of like American identity and Muslim identity, that I can’t say they’re mutually exclusive. But I can see why some people with however they chose to live their Muslim life, and however they see their American identity, I can see how that would be difficult.
SC: I think the question more means people of both sides of the extreme coin. Like people who live in the Middle East, who think the American way of life completely contradicts their values. And then people who live in America, who think Islam in un-American. More like the two extremes.
YR: I just think that whole divide is part of the problem. Like the people who live in the Middle East who live a very strict, Islamic life are saying, “Well, you can’t mix the two because they’re very opposite.” And then they kind of blame America as the problem, but then that thinking that Islam can’t conform itself to any kind of identity is part of the problem itself. And then on the other side, hearing people say that Muslims are part of the problem, I feel like it’s all just putting up a divide between a religion and a nationality. It’s comparing two different things and there’s always going to be a problem with that. I just feel like it’s very simplistic too. Like what do you mean by American? What do you mean by Muslim? You can’t put either category into a specific box.