Alec Tobin interviewed a 43 year old professional counselor who is studying towards her medical license, who we will call Daliah. Daliah was born in Cairo Egypt, but has lived in the United States for the past 22 years and currently resides in Houston. You can read the full transcript of their conversation here. Do you cover today? Have you in the past? What would you say are the biggest influences on your decision regarding that? So I started to wear the way I believe abides by the Islamic dress code when I was maybe 13 and a half. It was my decision completely. My parents, I remember especially my mom, would say "Oh you're too young, why are you doing this now? How about you take it gradually," but I insisted at that time. My father was okay either way, he wasn't pushing in any direction, and I remember having fights, actually, at home, because I wanted to follow the dress code strictly. My mom was thinking "Oh you are too young, why are you doing this?" It took me a few battles at home to do what I think was right. I haven't taken it off since then, which means I cover in front of strangers. Some people don't understand how this practically works. Muslim ladies take of the hijab, we call it the hijab. We wear normal clothes at home, or at women's parties or whatever. The whole point is covering in front of stranger men. So I of course cover according to the Islamic dress code now. But I feel that growing up, it became more of - I mean the position grew stronger as I grew up because I felt like it's not just a religious obligation. For me, definitely number one is it's between me and God and I feel this is something that pleases God and I'm gonna do it and that' enough reason for me. The other aspect is I feel it's a very strong statement of - I don't want to say feminism but - it's a statement that says, tells the others, the people dealing with me that I will decide what to show and what not to show and you will respect me as I am. You will respect my intelligence, you will respect me as a person, not as a pretty thing. You will not dictate on me how much skin I should show in order to be accepted. What my hair should look like in order to be accepted. So I feel like I'm making a statement on the secular level, not just the religious level. I feel like - I can't remember the name because I'm not very good with actors and singers, but I follow someone, one of them, who decided to go for some time without makeup. That was a very strong statement in my view because again, I feel that women are mistreated in this country because of the pressure of society on them to look a certain way, to behave a certain way. I feel Islam has liberated me from that. So the way I dress is telling people that this is me, this is my character. If you accept it that's fine if you don't, that's fine too. It doesn't matter but that's me and that's how I'm going to dress. It has nothing to do with the misconception that it has to do with the father or the husband or whatever. I know people who would reach divorce if the husband asked them to take off the hijab, I have seen it before. The husband would request that his wife would take it off and just dress in normal clothes, if you wish to say 'normal,' and she would reach the point of divorce because this was something so precious to her, so dear to her heart, that no one should really interfere between her and her God.
Have any of your experiences, or discrimination against other women that you've seen, impacted your decision to cover or made you rethink anything? It's made me, if anything, think about my intention of "why am I doing this?" And made me remind myself and my friends to remember why we are doing this. We are doing it ultimately to please God. So if anyone was to, God forbid, be attacked for that reason, they would have a good reason, a good intention. It's made me worry about my children, my daughters. It's not my decision. My decision, on the contrary, I feel more attached to. I do fear, especially when bad things happen and the criminal is a Muslim, I do fear and worry when I go out. And when my daughter goes out I fear even more. I remember after 9/11 I stayed at home for a whole month not even buying groceries. I didn't go out at all. Same thing after Orlando, but it was just for 3 days. So whenever things like that happen, it shakes me and it's just double the pain for Muslims because we're hurting for our country, we're hurting for the death of innocent people, and then we're being accused and attacked for it and we have nothing to do with it. People expect that we apologize for something that we have nothing to do with. So it's not a good place to be in, but it doesn't affect my way of thinking of my religion or my hijab, the dress code, or whatever. It's just painful. How do you view Muslim women who do not cover? What I tell my daughters, because my daughters ask about that sometimes - my kids generally, not just daughters - is that everything is a choice, and we all have our shortcomings. Some people decide to do this and other people decide not to do it. But I make it clear that this is in my understanding of my religion and it's a clear religious obligation. Again, for my older daughter, I explain my view of why I love it even away from religion. I explain my view of the hijab even away from it being a religious obligation. I love the idea of covering up in order to protect myself and kind of make a statement, again. So the way I see Muslim women who are not covering is just like me: I'm not doing this good thing or that good thing. It's a shortcoming, it's something that - it is again an obligation, but they could be better than me in many other ways. What I want to teach my children is that we're not here to judge people. We try to do the best we can, but we don't know. Maybe this person is doing way, way more than you can think that are good things. Maybe his life or her life will end up to be way better than yours at the end. We don't know. We're not in the business of judging people, and that's a relief. We leave that to God. We just focus on ourselves, focus on what we do and focus on our choices. I mean, I have a lot of friends who are not covering. We work together, we do volunteer work together. My mosque, actually, the board of my mosque has a wonderful lady who chose not to cover so far. She's a Muslim, she's a wonderful person, she's a close friend. I lover her dearly, and many others. That's just one of the brightest examples of my friends who do not cover. So that's again just one thing that people are not doing. But maybe, again, they're doing a whole lot more. Maybe their heart is way purer than mine. Maybe I'm doing more covert sins than they are. What is your perspective on countries or mosques that require women to cover and the perception by some Americans that this is oppressive? In the Prophet's time - again, I try to go back to the original text and the stories of the Prophet himself because this is the clearest understanding of Islam. He never forced anyone to do such things. He would give the guidance, he would clarify the ruling, but he wouldn't force anyone to do any of that. People would choose to do it. There are numerous stories, but I remember someone who was drinking alcohol. We missed him the mosque, he hadn't been coming to the mosque. So he asked his friends, "Where is this person?" And they told him "Oh he is totally drunk, he is totally wasted. He doesn't come anymore." He told them "Why are you leaving him to reach this point? You need to help him rather than just letting him fall." Drinking in Islam is a serious sin. Drinking alcohol is a serious sin. So are many other things like fornication or adultery. The Prophet had many more stories that can tell you that he is not there to force people to do anything. He is mostly a moral guide, and that's how we should be too. So you mentioned the countries who obligate women to do that, like Saudi. I lived there for a couple years with my family. And then I would go visit my Mom who was a professor there for a few years. I personally cover, and I like it, and I actually enjoyed being there and covering my face temporarily there. I wouldn't do it on my own, but there it is very odd if a women doesn't cover her face. I thought it was cool, I didn't mind. However, to live there and be obligated and disrespected, honestly, if you did not abide by their standards. Not necessarily Islamic belief, truly Islamic, by the way, because covering the face is not really obligatory at all in many scholars' views. Honestly, I would never choose to live there - I would always advise my friends not to live there or try to raise their kids there. I'm sure there are awesome Saudi people and awesome Muslims and awesome, great people there, but as a country system I totally disagree with this. This is not Islamic. How would you force someone to do that, because you cannot force the belief on someone, even if you force a practice. But that doesn't mean that they believe in what you believe in. That doesn't help in the end. So I totally disagree with that approach. Do you feel the need to defend Islam when mainstream media attacks it? How does the whole media environment surrounding Islam make you feel? We kind of have to do that unfortunately, given the current situation and with the rise of ISIS and Al Qaeda. With these things popping up, because they are loud and the media magnifies everything that takes place as well, it puts us mainstream Muslims in a very difficult situation. We're being lumped up with a few criminals, in most cases just pure criminals. Our Imams in the mosques are actually on their hitlist. Like our local Imam here is in some - a few of them in Dallas are as well - they put them on wanted lists for ISIS. They wrote an article about it. It's again double the trouble because we're being lumped with this group. At the same time you have the burden of explaining yourself to the American society at large and also trying to help you community understand the pure Islamic teachings, the right Islamic teachings. On my end, what I try to do, along with a lot of other volunteers. We thought about the best way to counteract this media or whatever takes place on the ground. We could not deny that 9/11 took place, or the thing that happened in Fort Worth and Dallas. I guess it was a psychiatrist person who killed people in a military base or something. We cannot deny that these things actually happened. We have no proof that they didn't, so we have to face it. However, the way we on my level - I mean, other people reach the media and they try to - maybe they have a different approach because their context is different and their circle of influence is different - for me, I am a person, I try in my locality. We, for example, do different projects where we reach out for our fellow American citizens in general, like just any American. We reach out for churches. We did something called Know Your Muslim Neighbor. We did it like 4 times so far, which is a program that introduces people. We hold it in public libraries, and it got covered by a few local newspapers and chronicles. It was positive, and it attracted a total of maybe, in all four of them, maybe 700 or 800 people. It was nice. So what we do is we try to educate and inform. And give the people a chance to interact with a normal Muslim, not the kind of Muslim that is being put in Hollywood movies or the media. Because Muslims unfortunately don't pop up except when there is a disaster happening. We live here in Houston with no less than 15% maybe doctors who are Muslims. In our circle, almost our entire friend circle, are doctors and Muslims. That's huge, that we have a lot of friends. We have clinics that are free for people who are uninsured, Muslims and non-Muslims. ISDH, which is the biggest umbrella for mosques in Houston, helped tremendously with the efforts after the hurricane. So the Muslims in the community are contributing. I guess we just need to be more visible and give the people a chance to interact with a real life Muslim instead of through TV. It's hard and the influence isn't as wide as the reach of the media, but what else can we do? I guess we need to develop our strategies and do a better job with the media, but I don't know. As far as a normal person like me with a family and a career, that's what I try to do. Just in my little circle try to do these projects here and there. We go to churches, we talk to people, we help with one of those things in the space center. So we just try, and that's all we really can do I guess. So we touched on this a little bit earlier, but our last question is "Many people suggest that Muslim and American identity are incompatible. What do you think of that?" Well I come from the background of a psychologist so I - what is the American identity? How do you define it? What are the features of the American identity. Because every aspect can be argued. For example, is nudity an American value? It's not. I don't think it is. There are six American values that I have no problem at all. Like for example: punctuality, honesty, confidence, being kind. All these things, I have no [problem with]. I remember in one of my classes was a group therapy class and I got to be very close with everyone in the group. We talked about deep issues and this issue came up because I was obviously the only Muslim in the group then. I remember my program director at one time said "I see no difference between us all, we are all the same. Except that you have [thick skin]." Which is true. But as a human being I don't feel that there is absolutely anything - I would never choose to live in Egypt with this kind of situation. I would never choose to live in Saudi with its situation. I feel very comfortable in this country. I love this country as far as people, as far as wanting to make it a better place for everyone. I disagree with a lot of successive administrations, not just this one. And this probably applies to so many other Americans. But I see no problem at all and no contradiction at all between my religion and whatever you call the values of this country of the American culture.
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